Thursday, March 29, 2012

Why "Married Man Sex Life" blog sucks

While I'm on a Hubby rant...a while ago we were all around the dinner table and Hubby says if we have a third child he wants a paternity test.  At first shock just took over and a few hours later despair.  So I point blank asked him, do you think I'm having an affair.  "Oh, no," he says "it's just statistically speaking 10% of all marriages have men raising children that aren't their own."  And he's not talking about step-dads either.

So why the paternity test?  To cover his own arse he tells me.  He figures following NFP strictly as we have to (because unfortunately I am one of the 1 percent of women who can't ecologically breastfeed.  For those who can, I give you the stink eye.), we shouldn't be having a third kid anytime soon.  He doesn't think what he's asking is unreasonable from a logic perceptive. 

But women don't operate on concrete statistics, we're emotional.  And when you start putting out feelers that you don't trust your wife...well then you're just asking for trouble.  Especially if it turns out that there's no remote chance in Helsinki that you're wife is having an affair.   

That coupled with the logic that no matter what you are doing to prevent pregnancy, if you're doing it, then it can still happen.  I've heard the stories (I'm sure you have to) where a man got fixed and his wife was pregnant.  He wasn't sure that she didn't have an affair until the test confirmed that indeed being fixed isn't always always always going to ensure that you won't have another child.  Things grow back.

Where on earth did my husband dig up this thought?  The Married Man Sex Life Blog.  Where he discusses here and here and here paternity testing.  The author, Athol Kay, advocates it.  He says:

To be quite blunt, if you're at all interested in pursuing the monogamy strategy, it's generally in your best interest to encourage both your partner, and all other couples into adhering to the strategy without cheating on it. Being guaranteed to be discovered if the woman's husband is not the father, is a huge incentive to not cheat. Both to the woman herself, and to the opportunistic man trying to get some on the side. Therefore mandatory paternity testing is in the best interest of everyone "playing by the rules". 

Yes, that's right.  My husband read that statement and ate it up.  Mandatory paternity testing.  Mr. Kay thinks it the wave of the future along with dna testing.   We've already seen the devastating affects dna testing has with regard to infants in utero.  I mean we're aborting children with Down's at an alarming rate.  Can you imagine a world where you are now going to paternity test every fraking child?

And I totally disagree that paternity testing "is a huge incentive to not cheat."  What about wedding vows?  What about sacred commitments?  Whatever happened to the Sacrament of Marriage?  If couples followed Mr. Kay's advice, what about commitments from infertile couples who know they are infertile?  Do they get off scott free?  I'm not buying his crap.

And and...he also advocates spying on your spouse if they're cheating by recording their key strokes.  Read it here.  I have to pause right there.  This is giving already abusive husbands more power.  By having a man suggest that another man should monitor his wife because he delusionally thinks that she is cheating,  we're opening up an unholy can of worms.  This limits a wife's means to escape an abusive relationship and locks her into a world of further isolation.  And while this isn't the norm of society, I know that a lot of men do have unfounded jealousy streaks.  A woman talking to her boss or warding off a flirtatious co-worker can result in her husband pounding her head into a wall.  We have to be careful what we say because sometimes our best intentions are abused.  And I haven't even brought up how if a women finds out about this spy-ware, a husband has eroded all trust in his wife and set himself up for divorce.

But...but...it gets even better.  Mr. Kay has a problem with SAHMs!  Oh, ladies, I know you're going to love reading this post.  What further sickens me is that his wife agrees with him.  Hello.  I didn't think that women's morals were checked in at their previous job and left there when they stayed home.

Here's what made me hopping mad:
But some clearly suck, and let's be perfectly blunt that that threshold for failure as a SAHM is pathetically low. You're only a failure as a mother if the state removes your children from your care. Otherwise you're the holy Madonna.

I beg your pardon?  The threshold for failure is low!   Short of the state removing your children you can't fail?  That has to be an exaggeration as I've had a friend who failed as a SAHM (in my opinion) because her 7 year old was reading far below grade level, her daughter was barely making it in math, and her 2 year old went around a great part of the day unsupervised while she updated her facebook page.  For the record, the state did not take her children away.  Arizona has the most lenient homeschooling laws in the country.  There's no accountability; you simply fill out a form.  And since her children were well fed (on a diet of pb and j sandwhiches), and clothed (in stuff too small for them) and relatively clean (all poop was changed but pee was another story), nothing could be done.  And yes, she disgraced the "sacredness" of being a SAHM.  Pathetically low indeed!  He must be joking.

Course his entire post is about how a SAHM lives the life of luxury and will easily take her husband to the cleaners if she should divorce him. 

As you can tell there's a common theme to these posts,  Mr. Kay feels that women aren't to be trusted without strict checks on us.  He believes that a mutual agreement to the sacredness of the Sacrament of Marriage is not enough.  And my husband agrees with him to the point that it's destroying our marriage.

To be fair, Mr. Kay is only a nurse.  He doesn't believe that what he says works all of the time.  But he's also to coin a phrase "Of the World" and I don't intend to live my life that way.

But a part of me wonders, how does his marriage look?  Maybe his wife should set up spy ware on his computer and see how he feels about it.  Oh, and while we're at it hire a private eye to follow his every move.  Because nobody can be trusted.  Sheesh.

At any rate, this kind of thinking is like putting Elmo on diapers.  You're only trying to make something that will stink look cute.  Elmo doesn't mask the smell.  Neither does paternity testing and spy ware.  If a person's going to cheat, they will anyway regardless.

If any one is actually interested in some professional self help for their marriage by a practicing clinician of 25 years, read this book.I highly recommend it and it has an entire chapter devoted to affairs.

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36 comments:

  1. Oh my. My husband can be a little jealous too, but I would kill him if he ever suggested a paternity test. He usually say 'are you sure you aren't having an affair?' and then I get mad at him. I think he is insecure because of a bad experience in another relationship and I sort of understand now. I wish he knew that cheating in the last thing I would ever do though! Much more likely we'd get divorced because of pointless jealousy. Hopefully reading that blog is a phase that will be over soon.

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  2. OUCH! This is a GREAT example to stay away from negative blogs---your husband's assignment- he needs to give you a foot rub

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  3. nice blog........i like this post

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  4. "To be fair, Mr. Kay is only a nurse."

    Nice ad-hominem attack, and pretty low one at that.

    The problem with feminism is it turns women in the very men they loathe.

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  5. Ok I missed this post originally, but wow what a piece of work.

    And to Anonymous (the one showing, not the one you quoted today) - That was actually an appropriate statement in this context. There is nothing wrong with being a nurse no, and that comment can be condescending when used certain ways, but in this case shows this man has no training to deal with this topic.

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  6. Late to the party but:

    it's called projection. Athol is a bonafide sex addict who admittedly wanted to get into swinging at the start of his marriage; he also had an intense emotional affair with a coworker; has also bragged repeatedly about being able to "close" a couple other coworkers for extramarital sex. I.e., the man is a horndog who has a difficult time remaining faithful to his wife, no matter how much sex she "gives" him. Cheating is on his mind quite often, methinks, so he thinks EVERYONE shares his mindset. They don't.

    I've been reading his posts for a while now, as a sort of guilty pleasure, kind of like reading National Inquirer or People mag. Some of his advice is helpful, some silly, some downright harmful like turning into a jealous, irrational nut who suddenly has the urge to get the kiddies paternity tested. Has he done this with his own kids?

    And yes, he is "only a nurse" - no qualifications whatsoever for giving marital counseling other than rewording the work of other people and relying heavily upon the junk science known as evo-psych.

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  7. Funny, the blog is actually quite open and neutral in many respects. Paternity testing hurts no-one, but the feeling of trust in your partner.

    Citing 10% (usually more along the lines of 3%, but higher in cases where men actually do not trust their partners) of children being from another father would make it a prudent step to take by a presumed father to have a paternity test.

    And please, do consider this from the male standpoint : a woman always knows her child is hers. A man can only hope and trust. A simply paternity test will wave away any doubt and insecurity and help your partner feel at ease with his own children.

    What reason is there not to test for paternity? Paternity testing might not stop cheating, but it will bring it out in the open. And no man should be tricked in raising children that are not his own. That's as sick as switching kids in the maternity wards so women get someone elses child.

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  8. I've read his blog as well and some of the alpha male talk does sound a bit 'Leave It to Beaver'. The idea that women love to be led... well maybe sometimes, but haven't women worked very hard to be leaders themselves.

    I think that if husbands can simply work on their confidence then they don't have to be overbearing alphas. Women like confident men not obnoxious men.

    Ladies, am I getting this right?

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  9. I'm a dad and a monogamous male with no experience in pre-marital sex, but decades of post. I've followed Mr. Kay's work for some time, and find it refreshingly honest. Most surprising are the number of women in the forum of his site discussing how the Male Action Plan has improved their marriages. It's the most welcoming and helpful on-line group I've been part of. His writing is crude and not politically correct. If one can get past the first part, what's left is what works. My wife has commented on the improvements in our marriage, and I've said nothing about the sorce of my information.
    Then again, I'm only an ordained minister, a former biology teacher, and a physician assistant.

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  10. Being able to point to a paternity test means that for the first time in history, a man can know without any doubt whatsoever that his children are his.

    Kids are number one, how is this anything but a good thing for father-child emotional bonding?

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    1. Its also accusing your spouse of having an affair. If you cannot trust your spouse a paternity test isnt what you need. You need counseling.

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  11. You've got bigger problems than just simply, "he doesn't trust me" and "mmsl blog sucks". The fact that hes reading it should send up red flags that there are problems. Either address them or its over anyway.

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    1. Um..okay. unless you are privy to private information about my marriage i suggest internet marital advice is something you should avoid which is why mr. Kay and myself dont get along. Making outside judgement calls is a big no no in my book.

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    2. If you didn't want people giving you advice on your marital issues, you probably shouldn't be blogging about them in lengthy posts.

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    3. I wasnt looking for advice. The entire post was talking about why this stuff is wrong. Its my blog about my family. Or did you miss that part on the about page. When i want advice i ask for it.

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  12. Dude sounds like you got major issues with control which is why your husband is reading mmsl in the first place. I would imagine that your cool attitudes to your husband extends into the bedroom (another reason for the mmsl reading), and i personally believe that chilliness in the bedroom is a breach of the marriage contract, and the sanctity of marriage that you were preaching about earlier.

    In other words he does not trust you but ... your not putting out so ... your both wrong. But then again - I'm just a systems analyst. BTW what are you again?

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  13. Dude? I'm a ma'am. How about you ask my husband why he reads it? Perhaps he feels sorry for the people there. Dont know. Dont care. As for the bedroom....there are only 3 involved: God myself and my husband. There is no contract. Its a sacrament; something thats holy between those 3 parties. The sanctity of marriage means holiness. It is holy when there is bonding and procreation involved. Coolness hotness isnt what sex is about. You sound as though sex is something you do out of obligation divorced from its self giving nature. If thats the case then you're missing out. Having mutually self donative sex is awesome.

    What am i? Huh?

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  14. Deltaflute: "Coolness hotness isnt what sex is about."

    I came upon your blog while doing an internet search to see how the internet world is reacting to Mr. Kay and his work. I'm curious. His MMSL forum seems to be encountering some bumps in the road as some of his male disciples, success stories (products) and more knowledgeable posters seem to be lately rubbing some of the forum women and Mr. Kay, himself, the wrong way. There's an interesting dynamic emerging, perhaps related to the "projecting" noted above. I'm seeing that Mr. Kay likely does not have all the right answers. But I can promise you one thing, your husband was reading the MMSL blog and forum because he (like all men) is not in agreement with your position that "Coolness hotness isnt what sex is about" - anymore than he can not notice when a hot woman walks into the room. If I were you I would do more research on "Red Pill" for the sake of your marriage.

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    1. Geez. What is up with all this unsolicited marital advice? If I needed it I would talk to my confessor. As I said it isnt about lust or hotness. That using someone for a means to an end. Desire to give of yourself is different than staring at a hotty and using her up in your mind. If men think that then 1) they are committing a sin and 2) they totally have sex all backwards.

      I stopped reading any of Mr. Kay's junk. It's only when the world finally orders itself to what sex really is about will people begin to understand what a cold sex-less marriage is about. Hint: its using a person

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    2. You shouldn't knock MMSL until you try it. You're handicapped by your obvious religious background, because it explains male-female dynamics via science and evolution. But it works, and it's not about misogyny...it's about transforming men to be their best and turn into leaders. By doing that, women will be attracted to them, and both will be happy. Just because your husband is a leader doesn't mean he makes all the decisions...just like a good manager at work doesn't micromanage.

      If you're husband is reading MMSL, he's probably not happy with his sex life. It is what it is. I bet his views of what sex should be are vastly different from yours. And you're both right. Why don't you ask him and see?

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    3. Could you fix your sentence structure? Are you saying my religious beliefs explain male-female dynamics via science and evolution? Or are you saying that MMSL explains that?

      My religious background isn't a handicap. It actually has a lot of information pertaining to the dynamics of men and women. You should read Pope Saint John Paul II's Letter to Women.

      The irony of course is that many proponents of MMSL assume that I'm a feminist against male leadership simply because I don't like MMSL. Yet I'm a Catholic who believes that only men can be priests.

      I have nothing against men or them learning to be leaders. Nor do I have a problem with women being attracted to male leadership. What I have a problem with is Mr. Kay's brand of marital dynamics, his sowing mistrust of men and women, and his dislike (if not abhorrence) of women who choose conservative roles like staying home. That's liberal ideology with a dash of male leadership conservative idea thrown in. I'm not a liberal nor do I like it's ideas for family life.

      MMSL is not just about a person's sex life; it's about relationships. And as I pointed out liberal ideology. Or rather a back lash against liberal feminism in the guise of male-ism.

      Catholics believe that men and women are complimentary. We are both made in the image of God and are both worthy of dignity. Playing mind games with women (or men) is wrong.

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  15. MMSL has worked wonders for my wife and I. She knows I'm on there, but doesn't ever read posts which is good. No, I'm not intent on getting paternity tests for my kids, but would definitely do it if she became pregnant again (I had a vasectomy). If your husband is on MMSL, then I hope he's in Phase 3 getting what he wants to stay in the marriage.

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    1. 1) I'm saddened to hear that you had a vasectomy. Naturally to me surgically damaging yourself for no real reason disturbs me. Plus Vasectomies are not completely 100% perfect. But I'm sure your doctor told you that. Sometimes the tube grow back together.

      2) "getting what he wants to stay in the marriage" See here's the thing. Marriage is not about getting what you want to stay in it. Marriage is for life. If it isn't for life, than it's simple. Don't get married. Infidelity, being unhappy, dissatisfaction, and so on aren't grounds for divorce. All they mean is you have to work harder at the relationship and yourself. Unless your spouse is causing harm to you or your children in form of abuse, than divorce shouldn't be an option for anyone.

      Furthermore Marriage is all about sacrificing the better of the other person or the family. It is not about the selfish belief that you should be "getting what he (you) want (s)". Sorry it isn't. If you entered into marriage with that in mind, you are doomed to failing. Because you are coming at it from a "what about me" and what you can take and not about what you can give. If you can't give anything, the relationship becomes one sided.

      God's blessings!

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    2. The inquisition, crusades, Witch burning, and Iraq war all have God's purpose presupposed in human's minds. Your husband wants more sex. That seems certainly obvious. God made sex pleasing (and profound) and gave us the ability to have it almost every day. This also seems obvious. Good luck to you guys...

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    3. I'm so confused by this comment. The Inquition for starters came about because of secular authorities. The Crusades were a defense against Muslims who were invading and destroying Christian holy sites. Witch burning began by a bunch of snotty girls. And the Iraq War was politically motivated. I'm not sure what your comment has to do with God's purpose for marriage and sex. You can certainly disagree with it, if that's what you mean, but it does not negate that that is what sex and marriage is about.

      "Your husband wants more sex. That seems certainly obvious." Is it? How do you know? Have you in fact spoken to and met my husband? It's strange that people make assumptions about what motived my husband to read a blog (however wrong) about improving marriage. So I disagree that it's not certain or obvious.

      God gave us the ability to have sex everyday....not almost. Multiple times a day in fact. That doesn't mean we should do so without discretion. There are some virtues he gave us as well including modesty and temperance and patience. It should equally be obvious that another component of sex besides the one you describe (which the Church calls bonding) is procreation. But alas the modern world with its pills and devices has decided that sex has very little to do with babies. And that is sad.

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  16. I feel sorry for your husband. If he found his way to Athol's blog it means something is bothering him. Usually sexual frequency. That's why most of the men find their way there. That's also why everyone is making that assumption. Your hostility to the men, or the man's point of view is probably creating negative energy in your marriage. It's hard for men to understand women, and it's hard for women to understand men, but it looks like you don't even try. You define men, and relationships through a strange biblical lens and I feel sorry for your husband. It's been two years since you posted this blog and I doubt you understand what drove your husband to the MMSL blog, despite continuously going on and on about the sanctity of marriage

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    1. Your comments illustrate what's exactly wrong with marriage today. "You define men, and relationships through a strange biblical lens..." I take it your an atheist and have no idea what Christian marriages even look like. Sad.

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  17. Why is it so hard to understand that some men get vasectomies because of how effective they are at preventing pregnancies? My husband had one because we choose not to have babies. If re-canalization occurred, I would have an abortion.

    I don't believe that divorce should never be an option. Those who think that way are often doormats who will tolerate just about anything. Who on earth gets married to be miserable forever? Life is too short. Infidelity is breaking marriage vows which is certainly grounds for a divorce.

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  18. Your comment sadens and disturbs me. The point of marriage is to be unitive and procreative. Getting married with the intent to never have babies is a marriage that is lacking. Abortion is murder.

    I wasnt aware that marriage was about feeling happy all the time. Love is a conscious choice to will the betterment of another. It's completely selfless and not selfseeking. Sin makes us miserable. And unfortunately we are all sinners.

    I am not a Canon lawyer but here is a short explanation: http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/why-does-the-church-not-see-adultery-as-grounds-for-an-annulment

    Suffices to say you cannot render invalid something because of sin. We are all sinners. It would make marriage completely irrelevant to end a marriage over every infraction.

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  19. Deltaflute, just wondering if you ever asked your husband why he was reading the blog - if so I would like to know what he said. I know you posted earlier "'Perhaps he feels sorry for the people there. Dont know. Dont care.", but he didn't just go to the computer and accidentally click the mouse and the blog popped up, right? Further, since he referenced the blog and talked about paternity testing, he seemed to be doing more with the blog then just feeling sorry for other people. Maybe you should talk to your husband - Aslo, you need to study your history regarding the crusades again; and also witch burning - I think you have the crucible confused with historical facts. Further, you should read the history of the Catholic church and the trinity doctrine. Also, since you talk about god and sex and natural to procreate and natural to get married to procreate, etc., then why does the Catholilc church encourage nun-ship and priest-ship (no sex)?

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    1. Are you asking earnest questions or trying to hype up anti-Catholic rhetoric? I don't see too many question marks in your statements. I warn you my finger gets mighty twitchy when it comes to prejudicial statements. I don't think twice about deleting such statements.

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  20. Athol Kay is on point! I think you're just afraid of him running a successful MAP and upgrading.

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    1. "Running a successful MAP and upgrading"

      What are you talking about? I have no idea what you mean. So I don't know what exactly you think I'm afraid of.

      My deepest concern is that Mr. Kay is a snake oil salesman and couples as well as individuals are being hoodwinked. The last I heard he decided to make a lucrative career as a "life coach" which is a fancy way of saying he gets paid to give people advice without having any formal training or certification in counseling, psychology, or psychiatry. Would you see a doctor about an aliment who isn't certified or licensed to practice? Would you be surprised if your deck collapses after hiring someone who isn't licensed, bonded, and insured? It's a buyer beware stance that I take. If you are concerned about your romantic relationships, seek out a person who has actually been trained. Otherwise you get what you paid for which could mean a relationship that falls apart. I for one care about my relationship with my husband and would only seek out someone who is qualified should I need it. But feel free to disagree.

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  21. Athol Kay is a complete snake in the grass. I found the site and agreed with some of what he said. Encouraging men to take a leadership role and having a direction, ensuring they weren't slacking in all areas. But that's it. His ideals are one sided and I personally feel sorry for his wife who seems to think that if she doesn't give him sex every day/night, she'll be replaced. He certainly advocates that.

    Not to mention he personally reads every private message to ensure people on his forum aren't having affairs with each other!!! Complete invasion of privacy not to mention underhanded since he coaches the same husbands and tells them what their wives are doing.

    I've never seen someone who gives marriage counselling with only one part of the couple in attendance. It's No surprise most of them then end up divorced.

    I can't tell you the hatred I have for this man. He almost destroyed my marriage after I turned to him for advice. He encouraged my husband to keep secrets from me and open a separate bank account so he could transfer all his wages there, leaving me and our children with nothing when he next decided to have an affair.

    MMSL is a place for beta men who don't want to change and Athol Kay is the beta King of Losers

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  22. Athol had me believing my husband was having an affair. After we got married, the frequency died down, and I panicked. I still panic five years later. The entire forum pounced on me to tell me I need to dress hotter and sext him often. None of it got his attention. Clearly he is getting ready to dump me, they all said. Five years later, he hasn't. And tonight I just asked him if he has fallen out of love with me, because he has been just off the past few days. Those MMSL fears kicked in. He has no idea what I'm talking about, even though he read some of Athol's early stuff. He continues to remind me that we're almost 50, each on our third marriage. We're tired. Sex isn't everything. And he's insanely excited to see our new grandbaby. But all I can think of is how he barely touched me, kissed me, or talked to me tonight, with most of our blended family present. This man's teachings etched a scar in my soul that I fear I may never heal.

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